Saturday, October 10, 2009

My reasons for wanting to kill myself when talking to a young earth creationist: irreducibly complex

Being quite the masochist, I indulged today in a little facebook sparing with a young earth creationist who somehow managed to find his way onto my facebook friends list. I thought it was a good example of how these sort of 'conversations' should go. The text is as follows, and I'll try to update it if it happens to continue... and if he doesn't block me of course. I would remove names to protect the innocent, but I'm just too lazy.

Kris Wampler can't decide who the bigger douche is - Richard Dawkins or John Shelby Spong.....probably Dawkins.

2 hours ago · ·
Dan Eisenhauer
Dan Eisenhauer
Kris we need to get you into a science classroom, stat. What's your nearest middle school?
2 hours ago · Delete
Kris Wampler
Kris Wampler
I graduated with enough bio credit from high school to be exempt from it in college.

The only reason you like Dawkins is that he bashes religion, primarily Christianity. There's no science in anything he says at all. He's just your run-of-the-mill atheist peddling the same refuted talking points atheists have peddled for centuries.
2 hours ago
Dan Eisenhauer
Dan Eisenhauer
Kris, you think the earth is 5 thousand years old.

My 12 year old cousin knows how wrong that is.
2 hours ago · Delete
Alison DeLara Evans
Alison DeLara Evans
Zing--!
2 hours ago
Kris Wampler
Kris Wampler
Dan, I had no idea you were around 3.9 billion years ago to see the Earth made. Do explain your observations!

And, actually, I believe it's 10,000 years old.
2 hours ago
Dan Eisenhauer
Dan Eisenhauer
Oh TEN thousand years. I take back everything I said.

Srsly, someone get a 6th grade earth science teacher on the horn.
2 hours ago · Delete
Alison DeLara Evans
Alison DeLara Evans
The zing was for wamplers first reply
2 hours ago
Rip Fiser
Rip Fiser
I'm not going too deep into this, but Intelligent Design and the belief that the universe is 10,000 years old is based on the idea that the world around us is too complicated for us to understand or figure out.

Real science attempts to understand the world, and is open to credible new ideas. If we discover some new information tomorrow which ... Read Morecompletely changes our understanding of the world, science will change and attempt to make sense of the new information.

Religion will never incorporate new information, and it continuously bends logic and reason to try to prove its own validity. Religion will simply deny as false anything that contradicts its tenets. Religion will never accept new information.
2 hours ago
Dan Eisenhauer
Dan Eisenhauer
Why? Why bother? We have two people here who think that "hey, where were you 4 billion years ago" is a zingworthy response.

There's a neurological equivalent of an electrical fire going on here and your bucket of water response is not going to put it out. Just sit back and enjoy the show.
about an hour ago · Delete
Rip Fiser
Rip Fiser
I know that I will never convince Kris of anything. I just know that I can't stand idly by while reason is thrown out the window.

Personally, I think Dawkins was correct when he said that creationists "don't mind being beaten in an argument. What matters is that we give them recognition by bothering to argue with them in public."
about an hour ago
David Pell
David Pell
Kris: I would pick the wolf in sheep's clothing.
about an hour ago
Kris Wampler
Kris Wampler
Dan: prove there is no God, and prove the universe is 10 billion years old. You can't. All you can do is come back with snarky, hateful attacks on religion and cheerleading for your hero Dawkins. Even atheist Michael Ruse said "The God Deception" was a laughable embarrassment, but please, do continue with your blind support of him.

Rip: I do ... Read Morebelieve there is scientific evidence for my belief, having to do with the problems and errors of radiological dating and many other bodies of evidence. Answers in Genesis is a good place to start for some of that evidence.
about an hour ago
Rip Fiser
Rip Fiser
Your evidence is based on problems with science, but the entire belief is based in the Bible. Without the Bible, there is no basis on which to found the belief that the Earth is 10,000 years old.

I have a longer, more in-depth argument to make, but once again you've sucked me into your facebook vortex when I'm trying to do work, dammit.
about an hour ago
Nathan Shore
Nathan Shore
I have no idea who that Spong fellow is, but I love me some Richard Dawkins: he's a great writer. I've read several of his books, not just "The God Delusion." I'm reading "The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution" right now, and it's a great read. Dawkins addresses your issue with dating the Earth in it, and he goes over many ... Read Morecreationist misconceptions about evolution. I'd recommend it.

Also, I don't see how you can think the Earth is only 10,000 years old (radioactive decay dating aside) when we can date trees using dendrochronology back 11,500 years.
30 minutes ago
Dan Eisenhauer
Dan Eisenhauer
Rip: I completely agree with you, I just go one step further and say, therefore, there's no point in trying to have reasonable discussions with these people. Rather, we should adopt something akin to what Sam Harris calls 'conversational intolerance.'

Take Kris' last response for example. He says prove there is no god, as if this is some sort of in your face slam dunk and hey what about this random assertion by this random atheist. What do you say to that?

One can only laugh and mock, knowing that you'd be better off trying to reason with someone who thinks Elvis is still alive.

I've tried to hash this stuff out with Kris before. Don't bother. You will be profoundly disappointed.
14 minutes ago · Delete

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